I understand why comments are moderated Im not criticizing. So pastor rock stars are way more dangerous. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. The church is one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. BTW, when I confronted him publicly, his response wasnt, I didnt do it, but You wanted me to. A married man twice my age, I might add, who nobody liked. Hint hint. The premise of con- templative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all). The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. If/when he does come forward to confess and repent of past bad behavior, he and Willow Creek elders will no longer be viewed as honest and credible among the remaining members. Try to respond like Jesus might and you will be let through. Conferences in exotic locales, entitlement, accolades, a volunteer workforce that actually gives you 10% of their earnings. Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. You have been wanting to run the ad and move on. And it all comes cloaked in the name of the Christianity and the Church. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. No one, from the janitor to the CEO, can be deemed off limits to the moral and ethical demands of respect, decency and appropriate behavior. I worked as a psychotherapist with both perpetrators and victims of sexual boundary violations for 20 years. If you have to go along with the silliness (never with evil) make sure you are being paid. There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. Contemplative Spirituality can be clearly defined this way: Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but often wrapped in Christian terminology. Please bear with me. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? At CertainPublicSchool kids have been caught in the rest room actually having sex as well as dosing on drugs. No!! Sidenote: My (female) cousin took it personally one time when we side hugged her instead of a full hug! You did nothing to invite such horrors of sexual abuse. If they are self impressed with the numbers who attend WCC, they have a problem. But we are not talking about the secular world. Wife Bill Hybels married his wife in 1974 when Bill was a youth pastor. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. Used their positions of power to gain access to women who had big dreams Thanks Erp that is *very* helpful information! I only hugged a co-worker once. Or perhaps I am not getting it that this is the official stand of the elders, as well as Hybels. The church is doing fine. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. 8 comments. Thats the thing; note the commonality of the golden parachute disembarking in these cases. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. Its YOUR money they use. Its safer. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. Good night! But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. 1 kiss @ AbuseCrusher: I mean, most say they want the truth. He describes how the skilled offender plans the way he will abuse the woman from day one. This is just how we do; I dont know. psychology today says that When we hug or kiss a loved one, oxytocin levels increase; hence, oxytocin is often called the love hormone.. What needs to be addressed is that this is not a matter of somehow eliminating the existence of random perverts, as if such a thing were possible. (A bit dogmatic, huh? Alcohol made me do it (Perry Nobel) I believe the accusers in this case especially since you corroborate that they knew the difference in a hug and a hug. The logical conclusion of B. Brucker position is that ends justifies the means. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? has been proclaimed against the Devil and his Witches. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. She no longer attended church (for at least a year) and she no longer trusted Jesus. I believe that God is convicting WCCs leadership. I would be ROFL if it didnt mean that there are some folks who have been deceived. As someone who didnt grow up in the church, I see the deep value of it. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. My wife worked for a Fortune 500 and did grad work in the hard sciences, she taught for a Pac12 university, I have taught law in higher ed for 15 years. But then, Im just The Crazy Kid, and hes always been the Sweet Little Angel. This is a well worn story, insert Pastor name here, insert church name here. William Hybels is an American author and church figure. Jan 13, 2018. Second guessing somebodys way of dealing with their own spouse is usually really wrong. In the end the price has already been paid by Jesus and its Only By Grace that we enter.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv72Q23lIp0. Dr George Simon Jr a clinical psychologist and writes about character disorder, manipulative personalities and malignant narcissism. The whole church is in our thoughts and prayers. However, there is HUGH group think/peer pressure to go with the flow and do not rock the boat, by questioning things. Wouldnt a practice of permanently deleting emails create potential legal liability for the person and the institution? I dont hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, unless it twitches over to creep territory. I wonder if you would say the same thing about a small church in rural Indiana or is it only the big churches that are the most important? So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. too much bowing down to the leaders, too much caliber, too much influence, too much power. Maybe He is cleaning house. I do and I wont allow this pathetic attempt to hurt another. Exit music: I never saw a cross hanging in Willow nor heard a pastor speak out against gay marriage, women pastors or the slaughter of the Palestinians, etc . And similarly for the individual when it is a corporation. Jodi Walle, who worked for John Ortberg, has written a note. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Bill was born on March 1, 1948 to Dr. Joseph and Evelyn LaBarre. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? over my many years associated with fundamenatlist through to mainline protestant groups I have experienced things situations, or told things that seemed just downright wrong. The news of the divorce came as a shock to many, as the couple had always seemed to have a strong and healthy relationship. I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. Its evidence. I have heard sermons on the side hug. Everything is about Conformity today. I think Bill Hybels is an intelligent man. There are a tiny few, a tiny few. I believe her account. The question is why? Bill Hybels stepped down. If we are not to judge, why would there be a list of sins in the Bible, including in the NT, with an admonishment to punish people via church discipline. Still not handled. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. Nothing to see here folksmove along! http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-hybels-publishers-20180413-story.html. Ok, gotcha. But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist. Just wondering??? Its uncomfortable but is it anything really? Is that honest? 1 comment about arms Your man-made system may not have won, but the winner here may be the truth, you know. Thus, the cottage industry that often accompanies or is an integral part of their ministry (sic) glides on, and the supposed spiritual.authority who is moving on is positioned to escape consequences and true rebuke. It would be very nice if he went to each one of them with other unbiased witnesses, and came to understand how his behavior, even if it was misconstrued, had affected them and apologized it would be nice, but I know that sometime you have to conduct your own healing process, with the help of God of course, and others regardless of the abusers behavior. I wonder when the above reproach inspectors will engage and be welcome with open arms; they may want to hurry, as its reached the secular media, and theyre not too focused on 1 Peter 4:8. Unfortunately, some of us are coming to the conclusion that this is what much of The Church really is: a thought reform institution. I have been doing some background checking into this. If John Ortberg was a heel, I dont see how that has any bearing on the situation. The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! But, the cat is out the bag. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. This stemmed from a Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation (everything else was All Gonna Burn) where the only thing God would ask on J-Day was How Many Souls Did YOU Save? and the numbers in your sales record would be all that determined your position and rank in Heaven. And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. I dont know that I qualify in your estimation as a person of substance, but Ive been a reader/commenter on this blog for 10 years and have seen Law Profs post for a number of years and know some of his background. How can you say to your brother, Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? The next morning, Bill and I were the first ones at breakfast in the hotel. The contents might be encrypted, and, if a key used to decrypt them is lost (or not handed over), they arent readable. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. Realizing it WAS NOT YOU. I chose to focus on the positive, job well done, not the negative. (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). But is that truthful? This is exactly what I had in mind!? IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. My bad for not being back in touch with you. As a victim-advocate and blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone. Why is Willow Creek exempt? @ Deborah: Same story we keep hearing again and again. Or it could be that he has no civil right so to speak to have his hands on her in the first place and therefore the responsibility to monitor his own behavior is his and not hers. So, yes, Id vouch for his legitimacy. There s more news coming out. Bill Hybels verbally and emotionally intimidated both female and male employees. Dimensions: 0.6" x 5.4" x 8.0" Age Range: 18 years and up Paul Aurandt Jr. Best Study Bible! The church Elders allowed Bill to stay in an unsupervised counseling relationship with her, while neither her husband nor Bill's wife was made aware of the situation. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. It can be such a power deal included in lots of other power moves by the evil ones well regarded in church. Perhaps after a time. And few of us agree on every point! Read the books and follow the formula. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. As it has been stated in widening circles of social media, under these circumstances (such as: improper investigation, witness discounting/tampering/intemadation, and most important lack of following scriptural guidelines) the Willow Creek 501(c)3 church organization by many credible voices has been deemed/proscribed as no longer a(n) safe or scriptural place to attend or be a part of. when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days, Indeed, the Lords hand is not too short to save, and His ear is not too deaf to hear. It just did not need to be a science or a manufactured event. My mom would come up to my room and cuddle while we talked when I was little and not so little. In my opinion this is sufficient proof to logically and reasonably conclude that Bill Hybels is guilty of clergy sexual misconduct and adultery, over an extended period of time. Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. The one about J. Ortberg? That is not old school. No one knows. During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. Get that through your heads. Be the one who is loving and kind in the midst of sorrow, showing us that you trust Jesus to bring something beautiful out of this pain. It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. 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